Webinar Information
ILD’s Web Marketing Workshop, “Best Practices in Web Marketing”
Now available online. Please click here for access.
Transcript of
May 29, 2008 webinar
Dennis Stoutenburgh: Good afternoon everybody and welcome to ILD's first billing webinar. My name is Dennis Stoutenburgh and the focus of our webinar today will be on Web Marketing and the various topics that we will be exploring on what are our Web Marketing options. How can we use the web to be an effective marketing tool and what are the potential pitfalls for Web Marketing. We will end the day with a discussion of Web Marketing best practices and the guidelines for implementing Web Marketing together with LEC billing.
To accomplish this objective we have engaged Lorrie Thomas to lead the webinar. Lorrie is a self-professed Web Marketing geek she owns her own Web Marketing consulting firm called Lorrie Thomas Web Marketing. Lorrie is a frequent speaker at various conferences around the country discussing all aspects of Web Marketing. She also teaches Web Marketing applications and search engine marketing applications at both the University of California, Santa Barbara and Berkeley and she has also held various Web Marketing management positions at Affinity Group, CallWave, ValueClick Media. It is my great pleasure to introduce to you Lorrie Thomas. Lorrie if you could take us away.
Lorrie Thomas: Good afternoon, thank you very much and yes, I am a Web Marketing geek, self professed. Web Marketing is an amazing marketing channel very lucrative, very flexible and very applicable to today's target market the way that we communicate, work et cetera. So it's really exciting today to get to speak and educate everyone on the call about Web Marketing best practices.
So when we are looking at Web Marketing the purpose of today's webinar is to really go over Web Marketing and kind of a drinking from a fire hose version where we have today a comprehension of the new web medium what are our options. There are no ‘shoulds’ when it comes to Web Marketing , there are only ‘coulds’ and we will discuss some of these new mediums and once you understand what those mediums are think about and think critically what would make the most sense for you and your organization. And also touch upon the new marketing management responsibilities that do correlate to Web Marketing. It's track-able, it's flexible, easy to deliver, but there is a whole reporting understanding kind of pros and cons to consider when looking at Web Marketing. I want to address how marketing applies to your particular industry and specifically how the LEC billing will marry up to the web and things to look out for and lastly we will leave the webinar today and we will certain leave time for some questions to talk about ways to weave Web Marketing into your overall LEC billing strategy because of you have different marketing methods and platforms and history and tools that works, so what we will do is we will address the possibilities and have you walk away with different possibilities so you can the weave this in - in a way that it makes sense. And I do want to remember to note that there is a webinar - I am sorry a white paper that marries up to today's presentation so you do have follow-up after the call today.
So when we look at marketing the rules of marketing has completely changed. Marketing is now redefined the way that we communicate work, spend time, spend money and it's primarily because of the Internet and how it's impacted the marketing the landscape. One of the best books out there right now is called the New Rules of Marketing PR by David Meerman Scott, it talks all about content and the way that consumers are not becoming prosumers and how they are using the web to pull the information they are looking for and it applies to all of us as business professionals.
We are looking at 71.1% of the US population. These statistics come from Internet world stats.com they go up all the time, sell to the masses live with the classes, you want to be with the classes you need to be online and you need to be serving your customers online.
High speed Internet access is in growing demand it is becoming more and more accessible to have that need for speed and mobile devices that usage is going up. I think in a couple of years we are all going to be searching for information on our mobile devices so for those of you that don't own your dotMobi account yet for your organization I would encourage you to go by that this afternoon and secure that.
And looking at how marketing has been redefined understanding our new time crunch (unintelligible) of consumers because this is the way that we need to understand our market and our market place so that we approach our message, our medium, our budget and most importantly the strategy we want to have sound strategy first before we move into execution but really understanding how the world is engaging and accessing information and looking for products and services. With Web Marketing we have new options, we have new distribution options, there are new benefits, there are new pricing structures and with all of the benefits there are new management responsibilities.
The main benefits of any type of marketing and particularly the web and how the web can be a lucrative medium we are looking at five subsets of marketing, different (unintelligible) awareness, if you build it who will come, how are you going to get your message out, how are you going to capture leads, new customers, that’s the awareness piece of the puzzle. Customer service we forget that the web is a customer service tool. People are searching for your type of product or service and they find you online, that’s good customer service. So people have questions need to contact you, need live chat, this is all customer service all that can get employed with the web, it's a way to connect with your customer and that is being done now a days through authentic content, through blogs, through reviews. It's a way to communicate with your end user but also being realistic we are in the business of making sales and marketing is a selling tool and Web Marketing happens to be one particular channel that can get employed.
Marketing is not advertising, it's advertising simply a tool. And when we look at Web Marketing the true definition it's the use of the Internet to maximize exchanges and that’s the true meaning of marketing it's maximizing exchanges that’s the form of leads it's inquiries it maybe direct sales but ultimately we are looking to get people into the funnel to sell our products and services and resell and up-sell our products and services. And we have lots of different marketing mediums this is only a couple of handful of the options that we are looking at. Design of the site analytics, search engine marketing, blog marketing, social media marketing, which falls under the Web 2.0 phenomena and affiliate marketing, which I want to touch upon today as well.
Looking at design and usability, these are the two Web Marketing left, your design communicates your brand, your message it takes people to where they want to go and the usability component is critical for marketing success and usability simply means the ease to which users are using your Web site or your landing pages and the low visibility that people cannot use your Web site they vote and Stanford did a wonderful credibility research study, which you can find online and it's also referenced in the white paper that ILD has. And it talks about pieces of the pebble that are really critical to funnel people into the lead and sales process. Clarity of message, easy to find contact information, appropriate design, easy to use Web sites it's all about simplicity and of course the design. If it doesn’t match your brand - really looking at consistency across marketing components, do the offline materials match up to the online, do pages that are designed for paid search campaigns and Google have synergy between the other sites? It's all about matching it up and having powerful multi-channel marketing.
Looking at the Web site development this is a slide that shows very complex, you know, behind the scenes, you know, working of a Web site and it's - sites can become insanely complex. Anyone who has ever touched the development process or has built a Web site from the ground up understands the complexity. Multiple pages, sub pages - all of these need to get presented in a way so that it's seamless and easy to use for the end user but also Web sites are now being built on more flexible platforms so they can expand and evolve and easily serve users over time.
The Web is the most track-able medium and you can tell how many people come to your Web site, what people do when they get to your Web site. Google Analytics is a free web tracking tool and as a web marketer I can honestly vouch for the ease of use of this particular tool, I love that it's free, I love that it's easy to use, I love that I have pie charts, I can see where are my traffic is coming from, what sources of traffic are referring traffic meaning what other Web sites are driving traffic to my site, what the search engine percentage of traffic I am getting, I can see key words that are being typed in to get traffic to my Web site I can set goals and if the goal section right here shows it could be leads, it could be e-newsletter sign-ups it's this one master dashboard that gives really critical information for any of us that are running campaigns or simply need that deeper understanding of what is driving our web traffic. You always want to approach your Web Marketing with a sound foundation first, understanding what currently drives your business, looking at historical data and then having a benchmarking plan to track success.
Search engine marketing, probably one of the biggest, most important pieces of the Web Marketing puzzle. Ninety percent of people go to a search engine first to find products, services, or information and search engine marketing is an umbrella term, hence the visual of the umbrella that addresses all of these subsets of search engine marketing.
Search Engine Optimization is a term or the acronym SEO that stands for optimization the natural organic listings you are looking paid search like via the Google sponsored listings, the Yahoo sponsored listings that is 42% of online advertising spending today. So, you know, about 84% of people are clicking on the natural search results, the other 16% are still coming from page search but that’s driving the online advertising spend landscape today. And then there is something called vertical search and that refers to local listings, niche targeted engines. So here is the best way to understand the difference. You have got your paid search up top and it's highlighted usually as sponsored links.
And we also have something called display advertising. Display advertising is now a glorified term for banner ads. And banner ads are still part of the online advertising puddle and they still work. If the message is right and the targeting is right this can drive a lot of traffic and potentially leads. The 300 by 250 the square size banner is the most popular display ad on the web today and e-mail marketing is still another very valuable piece of the web-marketing puddle.
E-mail messages get into your inbox on, you know, a larger even larger message area to communicate what you want to say. You are getting in front of people while they are working, while they are doing something active. E-mail marketing is still, in my opinion, in Web 1.0 meaning there is challenges getting through spam filters anything with exclamation point so the word free in the subject line can get flagged but the return on investment with sound strategy with e-mail marketing could be a potential opportunity for marketers. Only if the list is quality, and list is validated and they are truly opted meaning yes, I want to receive messages from your organization.
Viral marketing is what we call - we call word of nose marketing, used to be word of mouth marketing and now marketers online are leveraging the technology of the web that makes it distinct and allowing organizations to take their message and to allow the consumers or prosumers of the world to spread the word around. Careerbuilder.com was a great example. A year or two ago they did this program called monkey mail where you were allowed to create multiple e-cards and don't be silly goofy messages and record your voice and send this message around and it put Careerbuilder on the map. People grabbed on to it. It was fun, entertaining, relevant for the time and it spread like crazy. A good example of one today that I have seen circulating around the web was done by Vodafone and I think it's just Vodafone-myway.com and there is a - I think they call it like a web streaker it's a silly pink cartoon and it allows a little icon to dance across your computer screen and it's fun and it's getting the word out. So technology can certainly get integrated and be a fun way to spread the word.
Blog marketing, blogs are huge today. It is all about content on the web, content is driving search engine results and people are now pulling marketing versus waiting for messages to get pushed out to them and so now advertisers are purchasing banner ads on blogs or they are creating blogs out of their own stand-alone marketing tool.
And there is something called behavioral advertising. It tracks user behavior online so that ads are served out that are relevant to your surfing behavior. Let's say I was searching for conferencing technology and I went to one site and then I left I could have another organization communicate a message to me with a better offer so that it was relevant to the type of product or service I was searching for on the web. The more targeted any type of online advertising is be more expensive, I want to throw that out as a disclaimer also the more liability all of that with privacy issues but it is one form of online advertising.
Social media marketing, we are in the area of MySpace and Facebook and LinkedIn.com and Zing and Dobster and Capster and all these very niche targeted social media groups and organizations are now taking their organizations live on the web either through their own private accounts or they are going through in their advertising in a way that reaches people in a very targeted way where they are truly engaging online. I know teachers in the educational space and the only way I can get in touch with them is if I send the message to them on Facebook. That’s where they are at so another form of marketing that may make sense.
And then there is affiliate marketing. Affiliate marketing is a form of marketing where marketers only pay when an action is taken. The action could be a lead, a sale, an e-mail sign up and there are different technologies like Commission Junction, LinkShare, another kind of tier II type of platform called ShareASale. That is a technology that bridges advertisers and affiliates - affiliates being Web site publishers so that your message can get send out on the web and the publishers are the ones that assume the risk and the only time they get paid is if an action is taken.
We will talk more about affiliate marketing that’s an area that I have a lot of expertise in and it has it's pros and it's cons and actually my class tonight at UCSB is about affiliate marketing and we are going to be covering some of these pieces as well in class but I will touch upon the pros and cons and we'll spend some time there. No matter what the channel is the big question is always where do I start? I walked the floor of ad:tech in San Francisco about a month ago and if you don't have strategy you don't know where to start. You would be overwhelmed with all of the possibilities of the web so in order to understand where to start you need to have a sound strategy first. And strategy helps marry the art of the web, the design, the usability, the science all the things and make your site search engine friendly so that all of the Web Marketing possibilities are explored and the best channels are selected. Just because one medium works for one organization doesn’t mean it's going to work for another. So strategy is really the critical mapping step before any channel is implemented. In that way your marketing cake is baked in order so that your marketing execution actually counts and it works.
Big distinction of Web Marketing, we have different distribution options, there are different benefits to Web Marketing, pricing structures, case in point like with affiliate marketing you only get paid, our publishers only get paid if they produce actions. There is different ways that - that Web Marketing works but also there are new marketing management responsibilities.
And the big distinctions primarily the targeting. I am searching for an Italian restaurant in Los Olivos, California. I can go to Google, I can search for that, and I can find exactly what I am looking for. I might be on Facebook and I am with a group of professors through a teaching group and I can have a message served to me that is specific to where - to either my social group, my geographic location, you name it, keywords highly, highly targeted and also kind of allow marketers to spend money only where it helps. It's also immediately track-able. I showed a screenshot earlier of Google analytics. You can find out today by putting this code on your Web site where your traffic comes from, what people do when they get to your Web site, what pages they visit and if they are doing any form of marketing you can also find out how many people have seen your ad what they did when they clicked on the ad and ultimately tracked your return on investment. There is no excuse with Web Marketing to not want to have a good reason to spend it but be able to look at what channels work and put your dollars into the ones that really count. It's interactive so you have an offline promotion. You can marry it up to something you are doing online and track leads, capture e-mail addresses, phone numbers, live chats, very, very interactive and also very easy to deliver.
This can also be a kind of a risk with Web Marketing because I have found in my experience working for all shapes and size of the organizations that the - it's kind of all quick and dirty is always quick but you always end up dirtying philosophy and because it is so easy to delivers I can go and watch a Google campaign this afternoon and put in my credit card and put in some few words and well I am doing "Web Marketing ".
So again going back to the strategy having a great sound game plan in place before you launch but it is easy you don't need to have a three-month pre-plan or anything like that. It is very easy to launch and also very flexible. Meaning that if something doesn't work you can shut it down and move on. Here is an example of the targeting Titan Voicemail and there I was on Google. Easy to track, I can compare months to months anything I want to know I can send my sales report.
Here is an example of a credit union's live chat. This is a web tool that increases customer service and allows you to capture information easy to deliver. Any of these campaigns can get launched within days. Your banner could be here or here it could rotate. Very flexible let's say that this particular banner ad was working better than this one. You could call your rep at Yahoo and say you know what - in a week or so we want to replace this particular banner ad with something else. You are not relegated to the - well, it's already live there you go. But also the big note is you look at the pros of Web Marketing and yet it allows you great flexibility but we can't loose side of the fact that the LEC billing rules are not as flexible. And this is something that we need to own on our end as marketers in our industry because people that are executing campaigns on our behalf whether it is your Yahoo advertising sales rep or an affiliate marketing account manager. They don't understand and don't assume that they understand that the LEC billing rules are not as flexible.
They might talk more like I wouldn't say oh look it's so great and this banner is getting a higher click rate meaning more people see it and click on it than others, let's change these words here and there and it is up to us to communicate to anyone we are working with that they cannot just quickly easily make changes, the pricing verbiage or any offerings without prior approval by you and more importantly the LEC billing people. And that is something that we understand but we can't assume that the Web Marketing people or the geeks like me that are out there necessarily get it because they live in the - change things on the fly kind of a world.
There is also co registration. This is something to note as well. You signup for a Hotmail account then you get something free and you can check all these boxes. People can opt in to - I want to receive this campaign or this or this and you are going through this special offer but it's a great way for - to capture new customers but also pros and cons - pros are well I am capturing someone while they are in the decision making process, one of the cons is someone may not be fully sure of what they are signing up for because the rule of the web is that web surfers scan they don't read. So something to think about yes this is a marketing channel that would get explored.
I am looking at the affiliate marketing industry specifically. Little bit of history how it works. The brief history is - really Amazon.com is what put it on the map. Someone was talking to the founder of Amazon at a conference she wanted to promote Amazon and wanted - you know, to make some money and Amazon didn't want to pay her on a cost per 1000 basis which is really what the print advertising world is based on. So they said well why don't we pay you a referral fee or a percentage of sales every time you sell a book. Okay sounds like a plan - well affiliate marketing was born. It it's a great concept. And on paper it is win-win. The advertiser only pays when an action is taken and the publisher only gets paid when they perform well. We are in 2008. We have survived the dot com bloom and the dot com burst and we are now back in an era where marketers are shifting garbs of their marketing budget online and it is a seller's market. Affiliate marketing doesn't hold the power it did several years ago meaning that publishers of Web sites, Web site owners are now able to command top dollars for quality inventory. There is still place for affiliates. Amazon.com still has one of the most successful affiliate programs out there but it is more challenging to find the quality publishers because they are able to command top dollar rates and guaranteed income versus well I will promote you on my Web site but I only get paid if I make a sale. Now the top sites are able to say use secure banner ad and there you go.
So how it works. Affiliate marketing is based on a - an action or a lead. It's a CPA standing the acronym of Cost Per Action that can be a lead, a sale, e-mail signup, software download and there is affiliate marketing technology that allows these publishers and advertisers to come together and the beauty of affiliate marketing technology is it allows advertisers like us to go out to a Commission Junction or a LinkShare and have maybe 50 partners and use technology partners and do all the payment processing as far as okay, Lorrie Thomas made this much money this month, got her check and it helps leverage the partnerships, it provides the Web site people with tracking because any affiliate that is going to put any advertising on their Web site for you have to know how well it is performing because they get paid based on performance. So tracking of critical people in the puzzle and really looking at both players. You have the advertisers, and you have the publishers but really - really understanding that the object of the game for both parties is to win as much as we can and also knowing that winning as much as you can is about getting quality leads not just quantity. Because when you look at the sales funnel more the necessarily better. It's about generating quality partners and quality leads because you want to put your efforts where it is really going to count. And someone who is getting paid to generate a lead for you many not care so much about that. So some of the pros of affiliate marketing it's - you are getting paid per action. The payment process is great. I mean you are not securing inventory, you are only paying someone if they perform as per terms that you set up. It is a partnership. It can be win-win if the same goal is communicated whether it's leads or sales, the right partners could really perform well. And there is good tracking you can see how partners are performing to optimize but some of the cons to consider with affiliate marketing is that it is as I said before sellers market, which can make it really tough to recruit affiliate partners.
You can launch an affiliate program, you can spend the thousands of dollars it usually costs to set something up, put all the effort into it and then no one wants to play with you. Or worse the people that want to play with you maybe the ones that have kind of a shady business practice and they know exactly how to get a lot of leads to get paid and get out of there. And your brand message ends up in someone else's hands. If you are paying on a sponsorship basis or a cost per thousand it is your message and that is getting on to someone's site on your terms and also on their terms. But when you start paying someone on a performance basis through an affiliate technology meaning there an in-between between you and the campaign someone like - put something up on their Web site they may not need the banner you provide to them. They might put some different message around it and you can loose control and compliance and I have one - gosh probably seven affiliate marketing programs in my day in different target audiences, different products, different services, leads, sales, software downloads and there is a fraud issue, which is the last con that I really want to call out. Sometimes affiliate are a little too motivated to generate action and sometimes - and I am not saying everyone that's it. Sometimes desperate measures are taken or, you know, things are happening kind of on the fly without your awareness. And they may not be super savvy with LEC billing rules and regulations.
So getting into Web Marketing web practices. You know what you know now that is step one. It's not what we know it's what we are open to learning. The Web Marketing landscape is ever evolving as a teacher in this space I can never recycle any of my content because it changes all the time, the rules change all the time. So all of you that are on the call today are empowering yourselves with new information and new comprehension so that you can ask the right questions when you are exploring options or someone walks down the hall and says hey I think we should do search engine marketing. Well there are several types, there is natural search page search and this thing called vertical search. All of a sudden you are speaking, you speak but it gives you that power to put the right strategy in place before you hit the go button.
You want to engage sound marketing partners, whether they are Yahoo sales reps or they are affiliate marketing account managers or co-registration partners, these need to be people that can get it but understand you - your organization - the distinction of your organization and also know how to play by your set rules knowing that they can't change messaging that they are LEC billing requirements involved that’s part of your industry and it's about a relationship and it is truly about partnership and controlling your message from start to finish, and not just, hey we are launching an affiliate campaign or, hey we hired an e-mail list vendor looking at the process from the very beginning of it, all the way to the end, and looking at the sales funnel not just about the lead, but what did I get out of those leads, and if your marketers change your message it's still us - we are one that are still held accountable.
So being - whether it's creating guidelines, whatever you need to do to really own your brand tracking your online efforts with web statistics, this can be so easy, Google Analytics can give you free data looking at your month-to-month ad spend even in Excel spreadsheet, this is what we spend on direct mail, this is what we spend with the affiliate marketing, this is what we spend on Google AdWords, this is what we spend here, here is our "free traffic" that’s just coming to our Web site and looking at return on investment per channel and leveraging the pieces of your web spend and web effort to make the most sense. I would encourage anyone to create your own guidelines, even if you are hiring someone to build a Web site, I encourage people to write a request for proposal an RFP, that explains who you are, your organization, your goals, your what, requirements and engaging partners that actually, one read your information and two understand what you are all about, so that they are mindful when they are executing on your behalf. And hiring people that can truly become an extension of your team, and knowing your industry's distinction, and weaving that into Web Marketing not being afraid of Web Marketing, it's an amazing tool when executed brilliantly, but just being smart about how you proceed.
And knowing your options as you are educating yourself today, and as you are engaging your partners ask a lot of questions, ask, you know, does my particular channel make sense for my company product service or offer. Another great book I can refer you to is called Your Marketing Sucks by Mark Stevens, yes the title is accurate, and it's all about return on investment base marketing, any type of marketing, you engage in you need to have a damn good reason to do so, it doesn’t make sense to my organization. If someone says email marketing doesn’t work, that doesn’t mean it's not going to work for you, it's looking at your audience, opportunity doing a SWAT analysis, and leveraging areas that would make the most sense. Asking a potential marketing partner where are my ads going to go, if it's in an affiliate network, you don’t have control over where your message goes, somewhere with fluffybunnyslippers.com, they sign up to be an affiliate and they may have 16 other Web sites that are communicated when they sign up to be a partner of yours and your ads maybe all over the web. That is something to consider before you go that route. Are there references for your marketing partners, can I talk to people that are currently working with you. If you are buying an e-mail list, you want to ask, is this permission based, how often is the list scrubbed with that names, where are the permissions coming from, asking tons of questions and really covering yourself even having your legal team look at these agreements before is going to help you, so that you are doing backwards work.
Talking to references, whether they are search engine marketing partners, how I this going for you, what's working for you, what's the customer service level like, can I call someone at five o'clock on a Friday afternoon, can I see some examples of your work, getting clear on the tracking, web is a super track-able medium, but you may have e-mail partners that can't provide you with reports. Well if they can't provide you with reports you don’t have that accountability and they are probably not someone that you want to work with. Ask about the integrity of the placement. How are you going to generate leads, how - whether it's company registration, if it's a sign up, what their process entails, because you have to understand that from start to finish, so that when you are going down that road with any partner you are very clear about what's going to happen. And you always then start small and snowball, the web is flexible, you don’t have to launch a $25,000 campaign to see what works, you can be very small and very strategic in testing and capture that data, capture leads and see how well they perform before you take that next big step. And asking about approval placement if a marketing partner can give you the ability to approve a message, or placement before it goes live then you don’t want to go down that route.
So, looking at the message, here is a good example of controlling your message. This was a sign up for - it was United Airlines and very clear in here was how to complete your purchase, I have agreed to the terms of service simple terms, very easy to understand, it's a non-refundable purchase, no refunds will be granted very clear, very good customer service before I hit the signup, and sign my life with.
Creating your own guidelines, here is some examples, they can only be on US based Web sites. Campaigns need to have a check box so the web surfer is authorized to make (unintelligible) decisions that I am 18 or older marketing copy must be approved before it goes live, these are examples of things that you can include in your own trunks. You don’t have to sign a contract with the marketing partner without altering it. It's a dance you need to go back and forth making sure that the list of references are provided and contacted before marketing partnership is secured. If partners don’t signaling to hand over references, that’s something you want to think about, and making sure that the marketing company is compliant with state and federal law. There are some partners out there that have great branding and great exposure, and maybe haven't placed ice in the sandbox.
Knowing your industry's distinction, knowing that you have, your legal distinction billing and real product service specific distinction, and any of your campaigns need to embrace your own specific distinctions and I just incurred that all of you to get your marketing partners to one understand this, and two comply and get this in writing, get it in e-mail, get it in contract.
And ways to win big with Web Marketing , it's a results based where our reach and sell your products and services to new and existing customers, it can be a multi channel tool, Web Marketing doesn’t have to be standalone it can marry up to your offline effort, it can take your campaign to a whole new level, it's very cost efficient when you compare web execution to print execution, and that’s where the market place is surfing today, that’s where we are working online, we are searching for information online, it's a great way to attract, to serve your information, serve customers online, engage with them and connect with them. And online marketing is very track-able, very cost efficient, but it has its flaws and that’s where the sound strategy really is going to come into play to allow you to win big.
So, let me look at Web Marketing , you just want to read through words of it, embrace the positive aspects of it, look at - read books, read books like the New Rules of PR and Marketing, look at ways to use blogs and new technologies is the way to attract your customers looking at your web statistics, the track-ability, and educating yourself on the pros and cons of the medium, and that’s really just critical thinking what's going to work best for me. I can do 16 different types of Web Marketing practices, well maybe my Web site needs a redesign first, and I will put my effort there, because there is no point optimizing my site for natural search if my Web site doesn’t work. Make things, you know, make the execution choices with the strategic based, you know, backbone, and then you will win. Manage that message will start to finish, whether it's the campaign that goes out, the e-mail, your Web site itself is the copy on your Web site clear, is the copy clear on any landing page, are people truly understanding what they are engaging in before they hit, yes okay button. Comply with LEC billing regulations, click and dirty always click, but you always end up dirty, so cover yourself in the beginning, make that message clear, and that will sustain you for the long haul and create your own Web Marketing guidelines and get your internal stuff onboard, and get your outside partners onboard as well your contractors, your consultants, your marketing vendors, and own your success, and have dedicated account management meaning that, once your campaigns are going, have that system in place to track them to make sure that you are spending money in areas where it really counts, and gives you that return.
And if you approach all of your marketing with the simple things, you know, marketing 101, integrity, transparency, accountability the worldwide web, you know, we are smart people, we would also time crunched, so we want to be very clear about what we are getting into, and if you do that, if you do the right thing, you do a good job you will win, and just be informed strategy first execution second.
Dennis Stoutenburgh: Okay, well thank you everybody for joining us today, Lorrie thank you especially for doing a great job and TJ and Ilona thank you for coordinating, and obviously this isn't the last communication, if anybody has a question afterwards they are more than welcome to e-mail or call anybody at ILD, and I hope everybody has a productive rest of the afternoon.
Operator: Thank you that concludes today's conference. Thank you for your participation, you may now disconnect.
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